Series Crossovers for ALTEC

[LowOhms]

Jeff Markwart also found the N1500 a hard crossover to beat.
Kiss is my mantra too. Less is definitely more.

Yes. I mentioned that particular model ALTEC Series crossover in the second paragraph of my original post.

Thanks for your input. I wonder why we don't see more Series users? Forum Member SD-50 in Canada happily went the Series route around 4-2013 BTW.

Regards,

Jeff

[Old Guy]

I wonder why we don't see more Series users?


Jeff

I suggest reading that article by Rod Elliot.

According to him the only benefit to a series crossover is when load impedances vary a great deal. It tends to be a bit more forgiving. In a textbook world, a series and parallel will sum exactly the same. Of course, life is not a textbook world.

As I said, pretty much only way to find out is try it. And your data will only be valid for the combination of speakers, box, WIRES, and ears you happen to be using.

Wires is in caps, as series capacitance of the wires can significantly affect the system, since the series network is the sum of all series components. Whereas in parallel it has much less effect... Bear in mind the amp is also a series component...

In short, no magic and no simple answers. Yes, some setups could benefit from series, not all.

The folks who switched to series were ones it worked for, or at least thought it did.

[LowOhms]

I suggest reading that article by Rod Elliot.

According to him the only benefit to a series crossover is when load impedances vary a great deal. It tends to be a bit more forgiving. In a textbook world, a series and parallel will sum exactly the same. Of course, life is not a textbook world.

As I said, pretty much only way to find out is try it. And your data will only be valid for the combination of speakers, box, WIRES, and ears you happen to be using.

Wires is in caps, as series capacitance of the wires can significantly affect the system, since the series network is the sum of all series components. Whereas in parallel it has much less effect... Bear in mind the amp is also a series component...

In short, no magic and no simple answers. Yes, some setups could benefit from series, not all.

The folks who switched to series were ones it worked for, or at least thought it did.

Hi OG,

I pretty much agree with you, and I am very familiar with what Rod Elliot wrote, but I don't think he impressed me much at all ( on a personal level ), nor would I give him much creedence. YMMV. Fine.

What made an impression on me was not the THEORIST like Elliot, but rather, a person spending his lifetime actually designing and building better speakers - Irving M. "Bud" Fried. Specifically, Fried's two articles on speaker design, available to download on line. I would highly recommend everyone reading his story if you haven't, and Bud's actual experiences at audio shows, etc.

YES, in the end, one must listen and determine for themselves what is best, and what you said about that, well I fully agree. I am just "airing" two not-so-popular ALTEC speaker design ideas, (1) 6 dB. slopes, and (2) Series rather than Parallel drive in crossovers.

I will hope to be experimenting with both, and listening, in 2014 on A7s.

Jeff

[Old Guy]

I gotta call you on calling Elliot a theorist. He's done WAY more than likely you have. I'm not a fan of his either BTW. But you really need to get facts straight. Elliot writes things he has actually done, most of your posts seem to be second hand info.

Fried writes well, but if anything he is the theorist of the two. Not putting down his work either, he has built some decent, above average speakers, but honestly, they would not make my "top ten".

[mah]

FYI: AES E-Library ? Constant-Voltage Crossover Network Design

[cradeldorf]

I went with a series crossover on my 604C's, it was an improvement.

MockN1600 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[LowOhms]

I went with a series crossover on my 604C's, it was an improvement.

MockN1600 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Hi Cradeldorf,


Thanks so much for your quick report and work. Some simple questions.

I'm confused.

Are you talking about you going to that N-1600A series crossover, which you posted a schematic of, on 12-15-2012 ?

As I read back then, you loved that N-1600A series, listening on FM.

Or,

are you suggesting a new series drive crossover, just executed - since your photo in this thread is dated recently, as of January 2014??

WHOOPS, I just noticed, you just posted in this thread a photo of your implementation of the series N-1600A. Same parts values essentially, 91 mHY, 16 and 3 uF, Simple. I see no padding for tweeter though. Gotta pad tweeter, right ???.

KISS rules IMHO.

Jeff Medwin

[LowOhms]

Hi Cradeldorf,


Thanks so much for your quick report and work. Some simple questions.

I'm confused.

Are you talking about you going to that N-1600A series crossover, which you posted a schematic of, on 12-15-2012 ?

As I read back then, you loved that N-1600A series, listening on FM.

Or,

are you suggesting a new series drive crossover, just executed - since your photo in this thread is dated recently, as of January 2014??

WHOOPS, I just noticed, you just posted in this thread a photo of your implementation of the series N-1600A. Same parts values essentially, 91 mHY, 16 and 3 uF, Simple. I see no padding for tweeter though. Gotta pad tweeter, right ???.

KISS rules IMHO.

Jeff Medwin

OK all, I have now found the references to "tie this subject together". Please go here:

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/f700...schematic.html


and carefully review Jeff Marquart's Posts #4, and #9 where he discusses a more effective (but simple) way to pad the tweeter.

If I was running 604s in a home HIFI application, I'd LOVE to try the final (#9) configuration Jeff refers to. It would, conceptually, be a combination of the N-1500a and the padding of a N-1600a.

Bet 'cha its the best sounding of everything, cause its simple. low-loss, and tube amp friendly. My guess, my intuition.

Cradeldorf, you could adapt your Series drive build to (#9) EASILY, and get really needed control of the tweeter padding !!

I am just guessing, of course. Worth TRYING with a 604, Ohh yes indeed.

Jeff Medwin

[cradeldorf]

I was using 16 Ohm attenuators from parts express but if I remember it was better sounding without them. I have since parted ways with the "Lets stick stadium sized speakers in our 11 x 14 living room because it's impressive" mentality in turn for something with crystal clarity and an openness that is quite pleasing. I just hang out here now because they're good folk.

[Phil-G]

I have since parted ways with the "Lets stick stadium sized speakers in our 11 x 14 living room because it's impressive" mentality in turn for something with crystal clarity and an openness that is quite pleasing. I just hang out here now because they're good folk.

heretic